I do. They may have more wits about them than tempered mortals, but they're out of their minds all the same.
[His voice softens when he says that. It's not an easy thing. He does feel for them -- both the tempered mortals he's dealt with and even the ascians, in a way.]
I do wonder if they would want to destroy so much, were they capable of choosing for themselves.
They already don't want to. I have strong reasons to suspect if they weren't compromised, at this point they wouldn't even function. They're essentially held together by that.
I know you don't owe them anything. I'm not stupid or cruel enough to expect someone who was a victim of their scheming to forgive and let go either.
But if you really do feel for them, well. Maybe take in consideration most of their choices were dictated by something else, and caused by despair. It might not be just, but there is a way to fix things.
I am doing my best to consider just that. If they were willing to learn to be happy in the world that exists, and aid us in working to make it better, I would-- ...Perhaps I wouldn't be able to forgive them, but I would fight for their ability to do just that. I am far from immune to spite, but I am no monster. I could swallow my tongue and offer them whatever succor they need, if they simply asked to heal and grow the way all men should.
[This is a little too emotional though and he doesn't like it, so he's heaving a sigh and making a helpless sort of gesture.]
Do you, and do they, realise that even should they turn back time, they themselves may still remember all they've lost and all they've done? Can their society be truly restored, having known strife? Even if so, can they protect it from pain for eternity? Their plan, at the time, seemed to be to make sacrifices to a hungry god forever. Is that the happiness you want to give them?
[ he sighs and puts the notebook down in favor of going to check his shelves. Guess who's got a bottle of whiskey RIGHT THERE and two glasses - he's pouring one for Thancred too. ]
Obviously the thought that it might all repeat itself again has crossed my mind. I don't trust their god and I don't believe for a second that if they were to summon him again, he'd demand sacrifices of them again.
The idea is for them to go back to far before the final days, with enough knowledge that they'd be better prepared to face them. With more time on their side.
I initially wanted to find a way to undo their current condition, but I'm not certain of how good an idea it would be any more. Ideally I would want them to be happy, and their worlds to be theirs alone. Not some asshole god's.
[He is really not enjoying this whole being nice about ascians thing. It seems like the right thing to do, but it's so much easier to just punch them!]
...No, this is a pointless line of thought. Even if you could guarantee success, I cannot support that course of action. The road to happiness requires accepting ones losses and moving past them. If we mortal fools can learn to trudge forward within our petty, short little lives, these great and perfect beings can do the same. Honestly, in some ways they're like sheltered children.
Forgive me if I don't trust you well enough to give you my life's story.
[Does he really have to talk about this? He's very clearly unhappy, and strongly considering storming out rather than talk. He even starts to lean in the direction of a door for a moment, before closing his eyes to steady himself yet again.]
My own choices were not nearly on the same scale, and I recognise that. I also find it rather vexing to have my point discarded simply because you dislike it. Apparently, this is the key point we've come to disagree on. If the world was built on the rule of changing whatever upsets you no matter the cost to anyone else, it would be nothing more than self-serving chaos.
It isn't that I simply dislike it. It's the exact argument those I stand against in my world are using to prevent me from saving my world. Meaning each time you allude to something like that I'm inevitably going to think back on them, and how they think billions of people dying is acceptable because that's just how things are meant to be.
Consider it a request.
[ gesturing toward the glass he prepared for him ]
Not going to drink? I'll take it if you won't. You don't have to tell me about your choices but like I said, I'd like to understand.
[He's... eyeing the glass. It won't hurt, but he's really on edge right now and not sure he wants to dull his senses even a little. Then again, he is being asked to talk about some really rough stuff, and he does probably need to do that if he wants to make his point stick.
...He sighs, finally taking both the drink and a seat. If something bad happens, whatever. He can heal.]
Fine. I'll explain myself to you, if only because I dislike the idea of them spinning a one-sided story.
As a child, I had no family. The person who took me in and taught me how to be a person of worth sacrificed his life to save others in one of the ascians' calamities. He was a leader in the battle against what seemed to us like a cruel fate, and in his wake those of us still fighting only grew closer. When Lahabrea took my body, he used it to betray them. Nearly all were killed. Then the rest of us were driven to a corner, and Minfilia -- a woman I'd looked after like a sister -- gave herself up to the mother crystal to save us. In the end she gave all but the last shreds of her life to stop the destruction of the First. When I met her again, she was inhabiting the body of a young girl. Not wanting to take her hosts' lives from them, she lent them her power and left them to make their own decisions, and grieved all those who perished following her legacy.
Ultimately, she left it to the final host to determine which of them would go on. Minfilia's power was needed in its entirety. One soul needed to absorb the other. I... did not want to accept the possibility of her leaving. I wished only to save her, even at the sacrifice of an innocent girl -- and I was wrong. And still, even as I resisted understanding, I did not choose for her. In doing that, I came to love that girl as well. Just as much. Knowing that I would lose one of them forever should I keep my peace was nigh unbearable, of course, but... it was their choice. And had I stopped them, countless lives would have been lost. My behaviour was far from ideal at the time, as Emet-Selch himself witnessed, but I did make my choice, and they made theirs. Minfilia is gone, and everything I do now is for the sake of the girl she left in my care. But I will not compromise my values or theirs to do it.
[There. He's dumped info, and now he's emotionally exhausted.]
As I said, my dilemmas have been much smaller. But had I refused to let go of Minfilia, I would not have come to know and love Ryne. So on some level, I understand what good can come from loss.
[ he's quiet as he listens to all that, taking in consideration each worth. Of course it's not on the same scale at all and he thinks Thancred has no right at all to compare the situation.
But it's not like he can't understand, based on what he said before as well. He'd accept the ascians living among them if they chilled down, but not allow them to go back. And it seems to go a little beyond simply keeping things as they should be ]
I suppose there's really no way you'll change your mind. That's unfortunate.
But given your history, I won't say it doesn't make sense.
[ a sigh, and he takes another sip from his own glass ]
Oh, I'd love to needle every bit of your own history and what you know about those two, but it has been a very long week. I'll be satisfied so long as you understand I am not acting simply out of pigheaded spite
I never thought you were acting out of spite, or I would never have bothered to reach out to you. At most I thought you're too stupid to understand.
I can tell you anything you'd like to know about myself — I take my memories publicly and I'm not secretive about my history. But I'm afraid this is as much as I'll tell you about what I know of those two. Even sharing this much was a risk, and it obviously brought us nowhere near where I was hoping.
It might be simpler to show you. Jesus, where do I even begin ...
[ taking a sip of his drink and then sighing ]
I told you I can time-travel. To be exact I can control time and space. As a child I had quite a good enough control of my abilities to travel through space already, and thought I was ready to try time-traveling. So I got in an argument with my father about it, ran away from home, and time-traveled anyway.
I skipped ahead a few years a few times with no issues. Then I arrived there, at the end of the world.
There was nothing left. Only destruction, fire and dead bodies as far as the eye could see. I was the only living being left alive. Oh. Aside from cockroaches. Those are resilient.
I tried to get back and well. I couldn't. Turns out I vastly overestimated my abilities. A few days later I found my entire family dead among the rubble.
I spent 45 years there, alone in the apocalypse, with no one else beside me. And then I got a visit from someone and an offer.
[That's a depressing backstory! And also explains a lot. Thancred's just gonna down this drink. But he will not have any more! He has to... try to be functional.]
And I take it you've done your share of unsavoury things to fix it?
I was recruited by the Temps Commission, an organization that lives outside of time and is takes with monitoring time and space. They ensure that everything that needs to happens, well. Happens.
Including the end of the world.
As their agents I killed countless people, either because they would have altered the course of history, or simply because their death would prevent changes on the timeline. So as you've already guessed, I've done my share of unsavory things.
Working for the Commission allowed me to get out of the apocalypse, and I used the time I spent working with them to perfect my formula to get back time to my siblings. I knew if I could travel back I could stop the apocalypse.
So when I managed, I broke my contract, and since the end of the world is supposed to happen, I'm on their kill list.
I'm sure you can guess why I dislike the idea of just accepting things as they are. I have the power to save not just my family but billions of people.
Not only do I understand why, but I would agree with you. One may not be able to make a perfect life, but that sort of end is precisely what I and my comrades have spent our lives trying to avert. I have no fondness for any sense of preordained fate, as I hope you realise.
[There's a difference between a hopeless fate and trudging on through hardships, he thinks. But he also understands morality is relative to some degree no matter how you slice it.]
I'm glad you at least agree on that. Although if you recall, I did mention no living being except for me and cockroaches survived the apocalypse. As things stand I have no idea why the Commission wants to keep the timeline intact, and I'm not discounting the possibility that billions of years after that, new species might have evolved from that shitshow.
The Commission itself is in possession of technology far above what normal people have. Apparently they would have been able to make a new body for me to fix this mistake.
[ a pause, then he adds— ]
I grew up normally in the Apocalypse, but I miscalculated when I traveled back in time. That's why I look like a thirteen year old boy. But I am fifty-eight.
Either way. Like you say. This is exactly why I sympathize with Emet-Selch, and his kind.
[ at that there's a sigh and he finishes the rest of his drink in one go ]
But I understand your point of view. It's just unfortunate.
I see... Well, you're not the first person I've met whose form belies their age. I do apologize for assuming otherwise.
[Look, he can be polite and stuff! Really!]
Unfortunate, our situation surely is. But it's only a fool who thinks they could never have sympathy for their enemy. All people act on some kind of reason, after all.
I never claimed all reason was sound reason. Only that men are not inclined to see themselves as gleeful villains. Everyone has a justification, "boredom" being one such excuse. Understanding those reasons is key to dealing with them.
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Re: 267 night
[His voice softens when he says that. It's not an easy thing. He does feel for them -- both the tempered mortals he's dealt with and even the ascians, in a way.]
I do wonder if they would want to destroy so much, were they capable of choosing for themselves.
Re: 267 night
I know you don't owe them anything. I'm not stupid or cruel enough to expect someone who was a victim of their scheming to forgive and let go either.
But if you really do feel for them, well. Maybe take in consideration most of their choices were dictated by something else, and caused by despair. It might not be just, but there is a way to fix things.
And ultimately I simply want them to be happy.
Re: 267 night
[This is a little too emotional though and he doesn't like it, so he's heaving a sigh and making a helpless sort of gesture.]
Do you, and do they, realise that even should they turn back time, they themselves may still remember all they've lost and all they've done? Can their society be truly restored, having known strife? Even if so, can they protect it from pain for eternity? Their plan, at the time, seemed to be to make sacrifices to a hungry god forever. Is that the happiness you want to give them?
Re: 267 night
[ he sighs and puts the notebook down in favor of going to check his shelves. Guess who's got a bottle of whiskey RIGHT THERE and two glasses - he's pouring one for Thancred too. ]
Obviously the thought that it might all repeat itself again has crossed my mind. I don't trust their god and I don't believe for a second that if they were to summon him again, he'd demand sacrifices of them again.
The idea is for them to go back to far before the final days, with enough knowledge that they'd be better prepared to face them. With more time on their side.
I initially wanted to find a way to undo their current condition, but I'm not certain of how good an idea it would be any more. Ideally I would want them to be happy, and their worlds to be theirs alone. Not some asshole god's.
Re: 267 night
[He is really not enjoying this whole being nice about ascians thing. It seems like the right thing to do, but it's so much easier to just punch them!]
...No, this is a pointless line of thought. Even if you could guarantee success, I cannot support that course of action. The road to happiness requires accepting ones losses and moving past them. If we mortal fools can learn to trudge forward within our petty, short little lives, these great and perfect beings can do the same. Honestly, in some ways they're like sheltered children.
Re: 267 night
[ time to just pour himself some whiskey as well and just drink. ]
There are some things that you can't and should not move past. Let's hear it. How much have you lost? You said you had to make similar choices before.
I'm quite curious about the scale of such a choice.
Re: 267 night
[Does he really have to talk about this? He's very clearly unhappy, and strongly considering storming out rather than talk. He even starts to lean in the direction of a door for a moment, before closing his eyes to steady himself yet again.]
My own choices were not nearly on the same scale, and I recognise that. I also find it rather vexing to have my point discarded simply because you dislike it. Apparently, this is the key point we've come to disagree on. If the world was built on the rule of changing whatever upsets you no matter the cost to anyone else, it would be nothing more than self-serving chaos.
Re: 267 night
Consider it a request.
[ gesturing toward the glass he prepared for him ]
Not going to drink? I'll take it if you won't. You don't have to tell me about your choices but like I said, I'd like to understand.
Re: 267 night
...He sighs, finally taking both the drink and a seat. If something bad happens, whatever. He can heal.]
Fine. I'll explain myself to you, if only because I dislike the idea of them spinning a one-sided story.
Re: 267 night
But go on. I'm listening.
Re: 267 night
[He grumbles, but continues.]
As a child, I had no family. The person who took me in and taught me how to be a person of worth sacrificed his life to save others in one of the ascians' calamities. He was a leader in the battle against what seemed to us like a cruel fate, and in his wake those of us still fighting only grew closer. When Lahabrea took my body, he used it to betray them. Nearly all were killed. Then the rest of us were driven to a corner, and Minfilia -- a woman I'd looked after like a sister -- gave herself up to the mother crystal to save us. In the end she gave all but the last shreds of her life to stop the destruction of the First. When I met her again, she was inhabiting the body of a young girl. Not wanting to take her hosts' lives from them, she lent them her power and left them to make their own decisions, and grieved all those who perished following her legacy.
Ultimately, she left it to the final host to determine which of them would go on. Minfilia's power was needed in its entirety. One soul needed to absorb the other. I... did not want to accept the possibility of her leaving. I wished only to save her, even at the sacrifice of an innocent girl -- and I was wrong. And still, even as I resisted understanding, I did not choose for her. In doing that, I came to love that girl as well. Just as much. Knowing that I would lose one of them forever should I keep my peace was nigh unbearable, of course, but... it was their choice. And had I stopped them, countless lives would have been lost. My behaviour was far from ideal at the time, as Emet-Selch himself witnessed, but I did make my choice, and they made theirs. Minfilia is gone, and everything I do now is for the sake of the girl she left in my care. But I will not compromise my values or theirs to do it.
[There. He's dumped info, and now he's emotionally exhausted.]
As I said, my dilemmas have been much smaller. But had I refused to let go of Minfilia, I would not have come to know and love Ryne. So on some level, I understand what good can come from loss.
Re: 267 night
But it's not like he can't understand, based on what he said before as well. He'd accept the ascians living among them if they chilled down, but not allow them to go back. And it seems to go a little beyond simply keeping things as they should be ]
I suppose there's really no way you'll change your mind. That's unfortunate.
But given your history, I won't say it doesn't make sense.
[ a sigh, and he takes another sip from his own glass ]
Do you have any questions?
Re: 267 night
Re: 267 night
I can tell you anything you'd like to know about myself — I take my memories publicly and I'm not secretive about my history. But I'm afraid this is as much as I'll tell you about what I know of those two. Even sharing this much was a risk, and it obviously brought us nowhere near where I was hoping.
Re: 267 night
[He can't expect anyone to sell out their friends, after all.]
Then tell me about your "end of the world". I would hear what drives you to defend their choice so passionately.
Re: 267 night
[ taking a sip of his drink and then sighing ]
I told you I can time-travel. To be exact I can control time and space. As a child I had quite a good enough control of my abilities to travel through space already, and thought I was ready to try time-traveling. So I got in an argument with my father about it, ran away from home, and time-traveled anyway.
I skipped ahead a few years a few times with no issues. Then I arrived there, at the end of the world.
There was nothing left. Only destruction, fire and dead bodies as far as the eye could see. I was the only living being left alive. Oh. Aside from cockroaches. Those are resilient.
I tried to get back and well. I couldn't. Turns out I vastly overestimated my abilities. A few days later I found my entire family dead among the rubble.
I spent 45 years there, alone in the apocalypse, with no one else beside me. And then I got a visit from someone and an offer.
Re: 267 night
[That's a depressing backstory! And also explains a lot. Thancred's just gonna down this drink. But he will not have any more! He has to... try to be functional.]
And I take it you've done your share of unsavoury things to fix it?
Re: 267 night
Including the end of the world.
As their agents I killed countless people, either because they would have altered the course of history, or simply because their death would prevent changes on the timeline. So as you've already guessed, I've done my share of unsavory things.
Working for the Commission allowed me to get out of the apocalypse, and I used the time I spent working with them to perfect my formula to get back time to my siblings. I knew if I could travel back I could stop the apocalypse.
So when I managed, I broke my contract, and since the end of the world is supposed to happen, I'm on their kill list.
I'm sure you can guess why I dislike the idea of just accepting things as they are. I have the power to save not just my family but billions of people.
Re: 267 night
[There's a difference between a hopeless fate and trudging on through hardships, he thinks. But he also understands morality is relative to some degree no matter how you slice it.]
Re: 267 night
The Commission itself is in possession of technology far above what normal people have. Apparently they would have been able to make a new body for me to fix this mistake.
[ a pause, then he adds— ]
I grew up normally in the Apocalypse, but I miscalculated when I traveled back in time. That's why I look like a thirteen year old boy. But I am fifty-eight.
Either way. Like you say. This is exactly why I sympathize with Emet-Selch, and his kind.
[ at that there's a sigh and he finishes the rest of his drink in one go ]
But I understand your point of view. It's just unfortunate.
Re: 267 night
[Look, he can be polite and stuff! Really!]
Unfortunate, our situation surely is. But it's only a fool who thinks they could never have sympathy for their enemy. All people act on some kind of reason, after all.
Re: 267 night
No, sometimes it's really just because. People generally just go about their daily lives, sometimes they're just bored.
I suppose you are still young after all.
Re: 267 night
Re: 267 night
At the end of the day it hardly matters.